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@kensanata To be fair, applying for free or reduced-price breakfast and lunch is a one-page form for people who need it. It's just middle and upper class kids who have to remember to ask their parents for money.
@webbureaucrat @kensanata that's... Somehow making it worse. Yet another piece in a ludicrous bureaucracy that subjugates people that the US became
@stooovie @webbureaucrat @kensanata
Also it ignores that reduced price =/= free and therefore excuses not feeding children who had the TEMERITY to choose poor parents.
Hungry children don't learn, this isn't a debate.
Reduced price is for kids with parents who could afford to pay a small amount. Kids who have parents who can't afford to pay receive free lunches.
These are programs I know about because I benefited from them and I am happy to educate you, but if you're going to use caps with me then go fly a kite.
Interesting.
The point that you're trying to avoid is:
There are families with children too poor to eat yet not "poor enough" to receive free food.
I repeat hungry children don't learn.
Explain lunch debt with your experience of the situation. Are the families which need fundraisers too stupid to get free lunches or too lazy?
Or might there be another reason? 
@webbureaucrat @Homebrewandhacking @stooovie Did you know it’s easier and cheaper to just feed all the kids? Means testing adds substantial administrative costs and is based in the idea that poverty is a moral weakness and that you can’t take care of people without making them first prove that they deserve it.
Just feed the kids.
Just feed them.
What a good idea! Remove the admin costs and just feed kids nutritional meals so they can not be hungry and learn.
Always the first thing to go. School Milk for children, food to help kids who don't get fed at home to concentrate.
@Homebrewandhacking @webbureaucrat @stooovie It’s what our district does — free breakfast and free hot lunch for any child who wants one — and our district is HUGE — over 320,000 kids. It WORKS.
@Homebrewandhacking @webbureaucrat @stooovie We even managed to provide families with a food allowance for their children when school was remote due to the pandemic. There is NO excuse for letting children go hungry. Not one.
@shawrd773 @webbureaucrat @stooovie
Now _that_, that is inspirational. Some proper champions of children there.
@Homebrewandhacking @webbureaucrat @stooovie Our district is shitty in many ways, but they did get this right.
Hah. My government had to be shamed into feeding children by a footballer. The bar is buried deep in the floor.
@shawrd773
I *did* know that, actually! I jumped on this thread to add clarifying details about a system many people are unfamiliar with, and now I'm being held personally accountable for its existence. Love it here.
@Homebrewandhacking, if you would like to find some cons to own you should look elsewhere because you haven't found any here, and you're repeatedly making a fool of yourself.
@webbureaucrat @Homebrewandhacking No, you’re being held accountable for justifying an unfair system as not *that* unfair.
Whether it’s your intention or not, your comments come across as defending means testing children’s access to food.
Precisely. I have no time for propaganda about poor people or justifying the current system.
There's been 40 years of resistance to incremental change for the better and saying "the system works ackshully" is salt across my final nerves.
@Homebrewandhacking @shawrd773
(even more slowly this time) I didn't say the system works. You're literally just making things up at this point.
Again, I was clarifying the details of a system many people are unfamiliar with. I explained that the system is means tested because it literally is--I don't know what else to say. That's not "propaganda" or "defending" the system. It's just true.
Shame on both of you for making false assumptions.
@webbureaucrat @Homebrewandhacking Um…
“To be fair, applying for free or reduced-price breakfast and lunch is a one-page form for people who need it.”
This looks like a defense to me.
At best, it’s minimizing the unfairness of the system.
If that wasn’t your intention, your wording was poor and open to misinterpretation.
@webbureaucrat @Homebrewandhacking Also, people understand that the system is means tested.
The confusion is over why anyone would think that’s normal or okay. Explaining how the means testing works in practice doesn’t address that point.
@shawrd773 @Homebrewandhacking
I was stating the unfainess of the system accurately. The system is means-tested. It literally just is. If you, like me, think means testing is inefficient, then, no, I wasn't defending anything, or I was only "defending" it insofar as it's more equitable than a system where everyone pays.
If you think means testing is great and super efficient has no problems then I could totally understand the incorrect interpretation.
Goddam... it's like bad faith bingo today.
We've got them shifting goalposts about whether they're defending the system or not, we've got the tone policing about using capital letters, I'm just going to block this specimen because life is too short and I'm only interested in changing things for the better not thinly veiled personal attacks from whiny, patronising nerds.
@Homebrewandhacking Yeah. I’m willing up to a point to try and work out a disagreement, but the effort has to be mutual. I’ve also blocked them.
@shawrd773 Damn. We got derailed from saying that countries should feed their children. Dangerously easy to do.
@webbureaucrat @shawrd773 @Homebrewandhacking
I apologise earlier for assuming from your writing that you administered it. I'm now seeing I wasn't alone in that view. It sounded like you knew about it at that level. Time for some repairs maybe. How do you fix an entire nation that thinks this is okay?
@shawrd773 @webbureaucrat @Homebrewandhacking @stooovie
Exactly what Dallas ISD found when they ran the numbers.
@shawrd773 @webbureaucrat @Homebrewandhacking @stooovie Yes but just feeding the kids doesn't add that extra bit of cruelty and shaming that one gets from drug tests, means-testing etc. Remember, the cruelty is the point.
@shawrd773 @webbureaucrat @Homebrewandhacking @stooovie here in Maine school lunches are free for all students. Additionally, I spend about $20 a week on food for the kids in my middle school classes. Feeding kids is a pretty low bar to surpass.
@shawrd773 @webbureaucrat @Homebrewandhacking @stooovie This is what New York City schools are doing now, providing free breakfast and lunch no matter what. It's not great food by my smug French mug standards, but it doesn't require to fill any form to get access to it. They also carry the program through school breaks including summer breaks.
www.schools.nyc.gov/school-lif…
www.schools.nyc.gov/school-lif…
@shawrd773 @webbureaucrat @Homebrewandhacking @stooovie Also when you feed them all you do not send "look, this kid parents are poor" to the rest of group.
Which matters.
@webbureaucrat @Homebrewandhacking @stooovie
You benefited from them. My apologies. The way you wrote it sounded like you administer/ed them.