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It is impossible for my turnip soup business to make money if you enforce laws that make it illegal for me to steal turnips.
Paying for turnips is not realistic.
You bureaucrats don't understand food.
@davey_cakes Look, if I take a turnip, I can use it to grow infinity more turnips, that's just how turnips work, which means the farmer actually has infinity turnips, so if I take just one field of turnips, well, one field divided by infinity is zero according to the computer, so therefore I didn't steal any turnips.
It's just math.
@davey_cakes briefly misread that as "turnip soul", and for a moment was considering there was a vegetable garden branch of demons in Hell who dealt exclusively in the souls of those who plant root vegetables
@LordWoolamaloo the long dark turnip of the soul
@davey_cakes Why are there so many weird fingers in the soup?!
@davey_cakes so the whole problem with this entire discussion is that it's lose-lose for consumers. Yes, open AI is awful and what they are doing is awful. But at the same time, finally against it without adopting a copyright maximalist argument is difficult.
Your turnips are out at your stand at the farmers market. What I want to do isn't to take your turnips but to take a picture of them and use them.
@Amoshias I know what you mean about copyright maximalism.
I would alter your analogy to taking a photo of photos though - which isn't that bad once you don't sell them.
@davey_cakes the problem isn't just stopping openai. It's stopping openai in a way which doesn't then let Disney sue any artist and writer any time they want because artists "use" Disney's copyrighted work in inspiring their own work.
@Amoshias
The ultimate value of a turnip is found not in gazing at its beauty, but in eating it 
@Amoshias @davey_cakes This analogy doesn’t quite work. A closer version would be that I take a picture of your lovely turnip stand at the farmers market, and then use it to globally market substandard turnips that claim to have all the authenticity of yours. I then price you out of the market while simultaneously devaluing the entire concept of the turnip. In the end no one even considers turnip a type of food anymore.
@Frantasaur @davey_cakes I'm sorry, but that's not even vaguely close.
The best analogy isn't an analogy at all, it's reality. An artist reads books, looks at paintings, watches movies, walks through nature, and all of these things inform their art. Some directly - a painter may copy a specific brush technique. Some abstractly - a work may inspire a new one. All of these mix together in the artist's output.
How do you stop openAI's bullshit without harming that?
@Amoshias @Frantasaur
With existing laws, which don't prevent any of the things you're talking about from happening.
@Amoshias @davey_cakes but in your artist example it means something to the artist, i.e. the artist is attempting to communicate something of themselves to the world, and their new output doesn’t scale up to completely devalue the entire concept of creativity. Parsing a data set into another format for financial gain is not the same as art inspiring art, no matter how complex the mathematics behind the algorithm. The data set angle is what they need to go after here i think?
@Amoshias @Frantasaur @davey_cakes that’s not what’s happening. OpenAI is actually copying — in violation of the law. It’s not “learning from”. It’s not a person. It’s a machine copy of the original work. The training basis is an unauthorized copy made without the artists consent.
@davey_cakes Turnip soup, that's what's up.
done differently Obvs the turnip is just a digital copy and not stealing, right, training data sources of ip rights holders 
?
Go.Citations:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=openai+training+data+court+cases&ia=web
@davey_cakes that's one way to turnip profit
@davey_cakes You'll have to grow your own turnips. Not to worry, though. You can always hire low-wage workers to do your dirty work while you're drinking champagne on your second yacht. 
@davey_cakes Non-Fungible Turnips are the latest thing now?