@clickhere@mastodon.ieNormie noob question alert: is there anywhere that offers a comparison of the following email providers?
Mailbox
Mailfence
Posteo
TutaMail
I'm trying to divest from Google's ecosystem, so looking for somewhere to set up for the long-term (preferably based in the EU).
Any and all replies are also welcome. Thanks, folks!
@clickhere Proton appears to be run by a nazi so fuck that. Trying to do the same thing. Fuck Google.
@LightFIAR Oh jmj, fuck - thank you for letting me know.
Let Proton be stricken from the list. Ugh, what a scumbag.
@LightFIAR @clickhere I think the praise that Yen gave the Republican Party years ago was very specific in scope.
@LightFIAR @briand It's always very revealing, to see who finds fascistic apologism acceptable and to what degree.
@clickhere having reviewed their plans both Tuta and mailbox.org look decent.
@robincafolla Thanks - Tuta is out due to their weird, extremely red-flag ads; but Mailbox could still be in contention, along with Mailfence.
@clickhere I opened a mailbox account. Seems fine. Mail interface is very outlook; no filters or tagging. It allows free sign up to test it out.
Can't speak for red flags or not, what I would say is that all corporations are corporations
@clickhere posteo certainly is a no bulls**t service that just works and they challenge every surveillance request they get, have great transparency about this and offer data at rest encryption.
You might not get the shiniest UI or the most features, but it's all really solid and just works.
Also an amazing argument for posteo is their documentation, that really is super detailed!
https://posteo.de/en/help
@mxk Oh, that's great news about their detailed documentation.
Someone else (@alisynthesis)
was saying that a provider's documentation can help if I want to set up my own domain.
Do you think Posteo's documentation can help with that? (Reminder: I am a clueless luddite.)
@clickhere @alisynthesis yeah, using your own domain, using basically every mail client, calendar app, contacts sync out there, just scroll through the linked webpage, it's really super detailed.
@mxk @alisynthesis Fab! If it isn't too involved once set up, it might be an option (but I can't manage a self-hosted server type set-up, nein danke).
@clickhere go with tuta. I'm stucked on proton
@Stomata I was close to doing that, but..
@clickhere I am considering self hosting smtp for the first time in a decade. That is how bad things are on the email front.
@robincafolla I do not understand that first sentence. 
@clickhere 
You can host your own email server; it's just a (quite complex) piece of software that other servers communicate with to exchange emails. You can do it locally on your pc (but then if you shutdown your machine, you can't receive emails) or put it on a webserver with your website.
The reason people tend not to self host is because it's a lot of work; particularly in regards to spam lists (which you have to keep yourself off) and that issue of missing emails due to downtime.
@robincafolla Hah, thank you!
Ah. Okay, I may have to compromise, and go with a provider, rather than self-host. I barely have time for the most basic day-to-day; I absolutely do not have the time for that noise.
It seems like Mailfence might sneak the win with me so far.
@clickhere using Posteo here for many years and very content. Their features are listed here https://posteo.de/en/site/features and the help section is useful too https://posteo.de/en/help
@flyer Aha, that's more gold stars for Posteo, thank you! And thanks for the features list, too, that's really helpful.
@clickhere I notice FastMail is not on your list or mentioned by anyone. I've been using it for a few years and it seems reliable. I don't know how secure it is or who owns the company. I was hoping to get some insight on your thread.
@paulrosen Oh yes! I've heard of Fastmail, all right, thank you.
As they're based in Australia, that's a plus for not being in the US, but a minus for not being in the EU..
Other than that, I don't know a huge amount about it, either - but someone I know who's an IT professional uses it, so it may be good from a technical perspective.
I might need to do some more digging..
@clickhere
https://european-alternatives.eu/category/email-providers
https://www.optoutproject.net/secure-email/
As well as getting off gmail, don’t tie yourself into a closed system that’ll only work with their own proprietary app - I’d recommend being able to download your mail and store it locally, then you can easily move it elsewhere if needed.
@OrangeMenace Oh, thank you for the tip, and for the link, too, I really appreciate that! Yeah, getting caught in a closed system (again) is something I'm hoping to avoid, if possible.
@clickhere wherever you go, try to set up your own domain so if you need to move again it won't be a big real 
@alisynthesis Oh, thank you! I have no idea where to start with that, so it'll have to be on my 'to do' list in August (after a Big Deadline - meep!).
@clickhere yay! Go for it!! It's not too hard, and there are lots of great instructions out there. I'd start with the documentation at the email provider you end up choosing.
I'm using Proton for the moment, and I really love it. I know people are stressed about the founder's political views these days, which I totally get, but I'm sticking with it for now.
But when I heard him run his mouth recently, I *did* switch from using @proton.me to using @alisonwilder.net for my email domain. :)
@alisynthesis Aha, thank you for the tip - to the documentation section! 
@clickhere I use mailbox.org, very happy with them, but I don't need all the bells and whistles of other providers;
https://tuta.com/mailbox (just tuta vs mailbox.org)
@chebe Oh thanks for the link! I've heard good things about Tuta, but like yourself I probably don't need a whole lot going on - good to see the comparison with Mailbox here.
@chebe @clickhere tuta seems to require their own app.
I’ve started migrating everything to my GMX, account, but also considering Mailfence.
@OrangeMenace @chebe Hmm - is GMX a US company?
@clickhere @chebe German, but parent company United Internet is US.
In theory, GMX data never leaves Germany. Lots of free storage, it’s ad funded but only on their webpage or app, not by harvesting your email content.
I’m currently planning to put my most secure stuff on something like Mailfence, and use GMX for day to day.
@OrangeMenace @chebe Ah, okay, I get this now. Thanks for this, too. Yeah, I'm extremely 'nope' abut anything US now - I was already very wary (Schrems / Schrems II court cases), but now since the US election, absolutely nein danke.
)}] @OrangeMenace @clickhere @chebe
Do you know if GMX has a plain/simple login page for their Webmail? I got a free account with them about a decade ago for a smartarse vanity email address, but I rarely use it because the default login page (linked from the GMX home page) links to a "sports news clickbait" portal page with the login as a popup.
I just want a login page that doesn't have 20 news headline links (and a photo of The Sportsting Man Of The Day) on it.
@dec23k I just ignore the advertising stuff and log in - that advertising is how they”re funded, rather than by reading my email, so I can live with it. That said, I rarely use the web interface, I use IMAP and download my mail directly to a desktop or tablet client.
There’s also a GMX app, but I don’t use it.
@clickhere Throwing in a thumbs up for tuta 
@ciaranmak Oh cool, thank you - Tuta seems to be running away with it, so far.
@clickhere
I finally found a reliable calendar I can use online at work and on my phone. That calendar is provided by Tuta. The secure email is a bonus. I am now de-googled except for my android phone. I'll switch to /e/OS when it's dead.
@tanquist Oh cool - that's another vote for Tuta, which bodes well.
Can I ask about the phone/OS point, too - which OS is that? I had hoped to change to Fairphone when my current phone gives up, but afaik, they run on Android.
@clickhere
/e/OS is billed as "de-googled android".
https://e.foundation/e-os/
@tanquist @clickhere Can you say more? If I install /e/OS will it mean my phone will have no Google items silently underneath this OS? I've been wondering about this too, thx!
@mtechman @clickhere
Their webpage says you can install all of your favorite android apps, but without google interference. They have /e/OS installers for a few existing phones (link on the website). The installer completely replaces the google android OS.
Murena sells phones with /e/OS pre-installed.
@mtechman @clickhere
I bought an old Sony phone and installed /e/OS and it works great. Unfortunately the phone doesn't get a good enough signal where I live.
Often de-googled phones will have the option to run play store in a "sandbox" to prevent tracking etc.
You can always use f-droid or download apk files directly.
Graphene OS has this feature but it's limited as it only runs on select phones.
Thanks so much! I'm downloading f-droid now.
Have you or anyone seen a very simple set of steps for degoogling? Will the option to "sandbox" play store be obvious? I was hoping to buy a used unlocked Samsung S23 soon....my version of new phone : )
Within graphene OS it should be reasonably easy to do but may require some research, nothing about custom Roms is ever easy
@tanquist Oh, thank you! Time to do some digging.
@clickhere @tanquist You can buy Fairphone at iode (with LineageOS) and at Murena (with /e/OS pre-installed.
@peter_kropotkin @tanquist Ohhhh, you legend, thank you! Okay, I have options there now - woohoo! This Luddite is very grateful, danke.